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Forum: CPUs 02-28-2015, 08:53 PM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
That roughly comparison is ~14% reduction in...

That roughly comparison is ~14% reduction in density. And now add in 12.5%-25% for the logic/test/interface die and you are at 26.5%-39% reduced density. Which is basically exactly what I said.
Forum: CPUs 02-28-2015, 08:48 PM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
HBM/HMC might deliver lower queuing delays but...

HBM/HMC might deliver lower queuing delays but that doesn't really mean lower latency. The latency of the memory arrays will remain unchanged. And even then some of the comparisons can be a bit...
Forum: CPUs 02-28-2015, 09:22 AM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
Not talking about the density of the arrays but...

Not talking about the density of the arrays but the density of the actual chips. The TSVs increase the chip area per bit vs normal DDR3/4. HBM/HMC/WideIO are all likely using bog standard DRAM...
Forum: CPUs 02-28-2015, 08:26 AM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
Actually, its highly unlikely that HMC will...

Actually, its highly unlikely that HMC will improve latency for the exact same reasons that HBM is unlikely to improve latency. Both are limited by the fundamental optimization point of the memory...
Forum: CPUs 02-28-2015, 08:18 AM
Replies: 435
Views: 61,833
Posted By aaronspink
Intel iGPUs throttle to stay within thermal...

Intel iGPUs throttle to stay within thermal envelopes as well. I'm just stating what the review stated. If you have a problem with what the states, then I suggest you take it up with the reviewer.
Forum: CPUs 02-28-2015, 06:48 AM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
No, your right. Got confused cause of the...

No, your right. Got confused cause of the 4hi/8hi stack differential.
Forum: CPUs 02-28-2015, 06:35 AM
Replies: 435
Views: 61,833
Posted By aaronspink
No idea, just repeating what the review being...

No idea, just repeating what the review being referenced said.
Forum: CPUs 02-28-2015, 04:07 AM
Replies: 435
Views: 61,833
Posted By aaronspink
Yes, I sure there will be a power difference as...

Yes, I sure there will be a power difference as stated in the review, that's because the AMD based laptop is thermal throttling....
Forum: CPUs 02-27-2015, 06:59 AM
Replies: 435
Views: 61,833
Posted By aaronspink
No you don't. Neither of those is measuring SoC...

No you don't. Neither of those is measuring SoC power. Both at measuring wall and include the whole entire laptop. Both laptops also have significant difference aside from just the processors. ...
Forum: CPUs 02-27-2015, 06:46 AM
Replies: 435
Views: 61,833
Posted By aaronspink
No, I'm suggesting the only actual measurement of...

No, I'm suggesting the only actual measurement of SoC power in the whole review shows the SoC at <=15W.
Forum: CPUs 02-27-2015, 06:23 AM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
Latency gets worse with bank conflicts. When...

Latency gets worse with bank conflicts. When running a continuous CAS stream, latency is basically unchanged.

Latency takes a nose dive anytime you have to re-ras a bank that you are already...
Forum: CPUs 02-27-2015, 06:04 AM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
Latency isn't 1/2. tFAW doesn't really have much...

Latency isn't 1/2. tFAW doesn't really have much at all to do with latency. In fact, if you are running into tFAW, your latency is going to BLOW. Cause it basically means you are doing a full...
Forum: CPUs 02-26-2015, 09:09 PM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
No it isn't. The time of flight latency is...

No it isn't. The time of flight latency is rather minimal. For example, removing all time of flight latency and using only SoC edge round trip timing (the most favorable to your argument!) would...
Forum: CPUs 02-26-2015, 08:48 PM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
HBM presents the bog standard PRE/RAS/CAS...

HBM presents the bog standard PRE/RAS/CAS interface that dates back to at least SDRAM. HBM decidedly does not move the memory controller onto the stack. For that, you have to go to HMC. The logic...
Forum: CPUs 02-26-2015, 08:46 PM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
Actually their slides say EXACTLY NOT WHAT YOU...

Actually their slides say EXACTLY NOT WHAT YOU ARE STATING. Their slides have CAS/RAS/PRE at exactly the same latencies.



Again, latency will basically be unchanged from any other modern...
Forum: CPUs 02-26-2015, 08:28 PM
Replies: 435
Views: 61,833
Posted By aaronspink
Your supposed evidence shows a 15W part taking...

Your supposed evidence shows a 15W part taking 15W. You might need to find some actual evidence for your claims.
Forum: CPUs 02-25-2015, 12:23 PM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
There's just too much to overcome. HBM/HMC loses...

There's just too much to overcome. HBM/HMC loses roughly 27-40 off the top in density. Its going to lose likely another 10%+ in yield. That puts it 40-55% behind the cost curve. That's ~$40 in...
Forum: CPUs 02-24-2015, 03:15 PM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
Its not really opinion. It is pretty much fact. ...

Its not really opinion. It is pretty much fact. The additional steps for TSV in the wafer processing, the additional yield fallout, additional testing steps, higher cost more complex packaging. In...
Forum: CPUs 02-24-2015, 04:16 AM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
Yeah, I just don't see any only HBM designs...

Yeah, I just don't see any only HBM designs anytime soon. I wouldn't be surprised if intel went with either HBM or HMC instead of their custom RAM for GT3/4e. And I could see AMD having a higher...
Forum: CPUs 02-24-2015, 04:02 AM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
As long as the HBM interface is still...

As long as the HBM interface is still PRE-RAS-CAS, the memory controller will largely be exactly the same. If anything, HBM has more complexity than standard DDR3/4 interfaces. HMC is the only...
Forum: CPUs 02-24-2015, 03:55 AM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
1) HBM/HMC will always have higher costs than...

1) HBM/HMC will always have higher costs than DDR3/DDR4 unless/until DDR3/4 doesn't exist as a viable product. The inherent costs of HBM/HMC are significantly higher.

2) Bandwidth will increase...
Forum: CPUs 02-24-2015, 03:41 AM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
DRAM latency is largely fixed. The time of...

DRAM latency is largely fixed. The time of travel delay on the wires is a minimal factor. DRAM bank latency improves rather slowly. Pretty much the best latency 10 years ago (~8-10ns CAS) is the...
Forum: CPUs 02-24-2015, 03:07 AM
Replies: 1,076
Views: 145,069
Posted By aaronspink
Lets put it this way, any chart that says that...

Lets put it this way, any chart that says that WideIOn is going to cost more than HBM simply cannot be trusted. HBM is basically multi-stack WideIOn. AKA HBM will always be more expensive than...
Forum: Article discussion 02-07-2015, 05:54 AM
Replies: 478
Views: 59,682
Posted By aaronspink
FMULS/FADDs same difference really. Still quite...

FMULS/FADDs same difference really. Still quite shocked that a major bug like that wasn't the lede for the story and instead was buried.
Forum: Article discussion 02-06-2015, 11:10 PM
Replies: 478
Views: 59,682
Posted By aaronspink
Don't know, since Denver has a massive functional...

Don't know, since Denver has a massive functional issue ATM, I'm not sure you can consider any Denver numbers valid.
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