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Thread: LHC may have found the Higgs Boson

  1. #41
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    OMG, they've found something at 126GeV which looks like a short-lived Boson. This is about 140 times the mass of a proton, for an idea of scale.

    4 July 2012 ? the CMS collaboration "announces the discovery of a boson with mass 125.3 ? 0.6 GeV/c2 within 4.9 sigma" and the ATLAS collaboration announced that "we observe in our data clear signs of a new particle, at the level of 5 sigma, in the mass region around 126 GeV." These findings meet the formal level required to announce a new particle which is "consistent with" the Higgs boson, but scientists are cautious as to whether it is formally identified as being the Higgs boson, pending further data collection and analysis
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson



    The Tevatron at Fermilab found something a couple of years ago at this energy too. I haven't a clue what a Higgs Boson does really, but there may be 4 flavours of them. They are evidently important to the Standard Model, which, whenever it runs into a problem, invents a new particle to explain it.
    Best Regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by system7 View Post
    OMG, they've found something at 126GeV which looks like a short-lived Boson. This is about 140 times the mass of a proton, for an idea of scale.
    Maybe we'll get somewhere from here.

    I personally don't believe in patching up patchy theories, but if CERN is not complete hoax, we are getting new empirical data (hopefully public kind) and that might end up producing some useful results.

    There's so much data being generated from these experiments that more people can access and work it, more chance there is for finding something unexpected or proof for some other theory.

    Now, I don't know if this data they get is public or not, I just hope it is.
    If it's not, then I consider whole operation bullshit, until it becomes transparent.
    "One solution that seems to have been reasonably effective in the past is that of public ridicule." - Alex Smith (2014, Nethack 4 about game balancing)
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by system7 View Post
    OMG, they've found something at 126GeV which looks like a short-lived Boson. This is about 140 times the mass of a proton, for an idea of scale.
    This line made me laugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by system7 View Post
    //snip//... there may be 4 flavours of them. They are evidently important to the Standard Model, which, whenever it runs into a problem, invents a new particle to explain it.
    Chocolate, Vanilla, Mint, and Strawberry are the flavors. However, I wouldn't be surprised if rum has anything to do with it.

    On a more serious note: Why is the "Boson" so scarce if it is such an important piece to the universe puzzle ?

    I'm sure string theorists have alternate points of view.
    -V
    My views and opinions do not represent those of my employer

  4. #44
    And with the Higgs Field, we've come back full circle. Higgs Field, meet Subtle Ether.

    http://www.alchemylab.com/alchemical_theory.htm

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyc View Post
    And with the Higgs Field, we've come back full circle. Higgs Field, meet Subtle Ether.

    http://www.alchemylab.com/alchemical_theory.htm
    That looks a bit crackpot to me, hyc...

    I prefer cabbalistic physics. I'm sure I've mentioned the interesting Koide formula before, which seems to give the ratio of the masses of the three lepton (an electron is one) and three neutrino flavours:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koide_formula

    There's a nice formula that gives the ratio of the masses of the electron to the proton too. It'll come back to me. Something to do with 720 and Pi to some power, I recall.

    ANYWAY, the neutron is mass 939.565378 MeV. The Higgs is around 125.3 GeV. The Ratio of the Higgs to the neutron mass is therefore around 133.3! That is 4/3 times 10 squared. I find this interesting.
    Best Regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.

  6. #46
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    A Higgs boson walks into a church, according to one joke which did the rounds.

    "We don't allow Higgs bosons in here!" shouts the priest.

    "But without me, how can you have mass?" asks the particle.
    Specialization is for insects. - Heinlein
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by system7 View Post
    There's a nice formula that gives the ratio of the masses of the electron to the proton too. It'll come back to me. Something to do with 720 and Pi to some power, I recall.

    ANYWAY, the neutron is mass 939.565378 MeV. The Higgs is around 125.3 GeV. The Ratio of the Higgs to the neutron mass is therefore around 133.3! That is 4/3 times 10 squared. I find this interesting.
    Reminded me of this -> http://xkcd.com/1047/

    Great comic series if you've never read it by the way.

    Sorry to intrude, carry on.

  8. #48
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    I had a TERRIBLE experience at XKCD physics forum. They didn't like string theory at all. And had no sense of fun at all. Amazed me, because 10 dimensions make perfect sense to me.

    I dug up the 10 dimensional explanation of the proton mass complete with XKCD humourous references:

    Actually, I could do a lot better myself by supposing that a string-like 10 dimensional hypersphere has a unit radius. What is it's hypervolume? Pi to the fifth divided by 120= 2.55016404. Now place 720 of them on the edges of a remarkably symmetrical and unique 4D 600-Cell and you get 1836.11811 electron masses.

    FWIW, the Proton is actually 1836.15267 electron masses, and a neutron is 1838.68366. But with a bit of fudging for relativity and fine structure constant I think it might work. It certainly has mathematical elegance!
    http://www.semiaccurate.com/forums/s...9&postcount=13

    Keen observers will notice the Higgs mass ratio is the volume of a sphere times 10 dimensions squared. Pure string theory again.

    But seriously, there will be an equation that describes these simple things in the 30th Century. Why shouldn't it be something simple and geometric?

    As for why the Higgs is so hard to find, well I reckon it hides in one of the small dimensions for the most part.
    Best Regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by system7 View Post
    That looks a bit crackpot to me, hyc...
    It was only slightly tongue-in-cheek. The notion of a unifying ether has been around for at least the past 4000 years.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_element

    Most of the people we credit as being founders of modern science were alchemists...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy

    Calling something the Higgs Field today is just, IMO, putting a new name on the same old concept (Ether).

  10. #50
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    Hyc - except that (as pointed out in million other forum) aether affected light and nothing else, while the Higgs field is EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

    The whole point of the Standard Model is that bosons are just quantum solutions to what are actually fields. You pump enough energy into the field till it forms a particle (point) solution and measure it's decay mass.

    People love to come up with easy to conceptualise models of how the universe works - like the 4d "Trampoline" of SpaceTime - but this is complete rubbish. These are models that approximate the universe as best as we can tell. They don't have to bear any resemblance to what actually is going except as far as we can observe. Best example Relativity (take you pick which one) is stunningly well tested - to a few parts in 10^20 if IIRC - but it doesn't explain stuff at the nano-scale AT ALL. That's because it's a model, not the actual universe. Einstein might have been right about how the universe behaves at cosmological scales but Relativity (Special and General) are not how the actual universe works.
    Long live aceshardware!

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