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Thread: Sony Playstation 4 will be an x86 CPU with an AMD GPU

  1. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by charlie View Post
    You are dead right, but THIS version of the dev kits are custom silicon, so it should be very close to the end product.

    -Charlie
    So is there any credence to the Llano rumours to your knowledge? If so I am disappointed and NextBox will eat it for breakfast as far as CPU power is concerned.

  2. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by charlie View Post
    You are dead right, but THIS version of the dev kits are custom silicon, so it should be very close to the end product.
    That would mean that the final product would be based on K10-cores, too. I dont want to believe that.
    Otherwise custom silicon would not make sense imo, the costs for these few 100 dev-kits would be far too high.

  3. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    That would mean that the final product would be based on K10-cores, too. I dont want to believe that.
    Otherwise custom silicon would not make sense imo, the costs for these few 100 dev-kits would be far too high.
    Considering how long Trinity seems to have been floating around in some form I also tend to think Llano is not the core being used.
    What you talkin bout Willis?

  4. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatty2nd View Post
    So is there any credence to the Llano rumours to your knowledge? If so I am disappointed and NextBox will eat it for breakfast as far as CPU power is concerned.
    I wouldn't be surprised if the first gen was Llano based, it makes sense from an early coding perspective. I would think the next would be a Trinity, and then custom silicon. Not a particularly hard leap of logic to see why this makes sense.

    -Charlie

  5. #195
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    As for the processing power argument: I'm pretty sure that Llano could beat almost any traditional CPU as long as games were coded to efficiently use its GPU part to do the more parallel processing stuff.

    The problem is that, from a programming perspective, it could be a lot like adapting code to efficiently run on Cell all over again ...

    ... but that's exactly were the fully bown HSA stuff is supposed to come in and safe the day.


    In summary, I'm pretty sure the next PS4 won't use any APU in the "2011/12" sense. It might use an "HSA chip + additional discrete GPU" or an HSA capable "CPU + discrete GPU" combo.

    "HSA chip + additional discrete GPU" would certainly make for some insane marketing stuff, though. Imagine a spec sheet that reads like this:

    CPU: 900* cores
    GPU: 2048 cores

    *896 general purpose parallel processing cores + 4 integer cores)

  6. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    That would mean that the final product would be based on K10-cores, too. I dont want to believe that.
    Otherwise custom silicon would not make sense imo, the costs for these few 100 dev-kits would be far too high.
    I suppose the "custom silicon" is actually "custom packaging" or whatever is being made to strap together some new components in top of the APU, like Charlie's article.

    This way these dev kits could be much cheaper and developers can play with the "all is integrated" feature, knowing that in the final silicon the latency, BW, etc, etc will be better.

  7. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirroman View Post
    I suppose the "custom silicon" is actually "custom packaging" or whatever is being made to strap together some new components in top of the APU, like Charlie's article.

    This way these dev kits could be much cheaper and developers can play with the "all is integrated" feature, knowing that in the final silicon the latency, BW, etc, etc will be better.
    It isn't.

    -Charlie

  8. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie View Post
    It isn't.

    -Charlie
    So with all the costs of doing masks and whatnot for that custom silicon I would believe that would be final cpu + gpu. Unless Sony isn't shy of paying a lot for very small benefits (IMHO) right now...

  9. #199
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    We're talking about a final product that's supposed to last 10 years and sell 100.000.000 times. I guess that's enough motivation to do some extra masks.

    We also need to consider that, given that SONY went for an AMD CPU+GPU combo, pushing the design is in AMDs very own interest. Getting this stuff right is very likely to be a decisive cornerstone in their upcoming HSA strategy. Having your tech in millions of gaming consoles basically beats any TWIMTBP programm. Wouldn't be surprised if that helped SONY a lot in getting a very good price.

    Finally, they can do a lot of extra work until they'll even remotely reach the dev costs used for Cell - so the overall value should still be very good for SONY. Better to do some custom designs based on existing/already planned tech than paying for something to be developed totally from scratch.

  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt View Post
    We're talking about a final product that's supposed to last 10 years and sell 100.000.000 times. I guess that's enough motivation to do some extra masks.

    We also need to consider that, given that SONY went for an AMD CPU+GPU combo, pushing the design is in AMDs very own interest. Getting this stuff right is very likely to be a decisive cornerstone in their upcoming HSA strategy. Having your tech in millions of gaming consoles basically beats any TWIMTBP programm. Wouldn't be surprised if that helped SONY a lot in getting a very good price.

    Finally, they can do a lot of extra work until they'll even remotely reach the dev costs used for Cell - so the overall value should still be very good for SONY. Better to do some custom designs based on existing/already planned tech than paying for something to be developed totally from scratch.
    Good points, I thought the benefits of doing this custom silicon would be pretty marginal right now, it would be really expensive and developers still wouldn't have the same experience.

    But if we take it as manufacturing experience for both Sony, AMD and the chosen-foundry... and adds on top of that the huge costs that Sony is used to pay into their consoles... You may be right.

    Also, there's something we can't lose sight of: the fact that Sony should be rushing their console to get a 2013 release instead of a 2014 release, which was somewhat expected if Ninty didn't trigger the next-gen.

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