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Thread: 14 signs that the collapse of our modern world has already begun

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthShader View Post
    Right, good example, so who is going to be the Barbarians who will come to destroy us?
    The barbarians were just other people. So, it is obviously clear that we alone ourselves can destroy us, ourselves. One more global war, a third world war and I bet almost everything will be gone.
    The Mother Nature can also destroy us with ease, and one of the ideas of similar articles is that we are doing so bad things on Earth, we produce so much negative energy that at some point Mother Nature will respond and will delete us from here.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthShader View Post
    The Aliens you mention?
    Obviously, you are not a fan of the Ancient Aliens series on The History Channel.

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    Corporations in a free market have to compete to earn your buying power, and they can't do that by forcing things down your throat...
    How do you know that they are not doing this? By washing people's brains by a few means?

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    unless they have an all-powerful government backing them and giving them market advantages (what most people ironically herald as a good thing: government "regulation"). But then you no longer have a free market. Running a business isn't inherently evil, but intertwining it with the coercive monopoly of government spoils competition.
    I understand "a government regulation" as a process in which the government actually controls the way of the corporations on the market, and their behaviour. Price regulation as an example which is obviously a good thing for the masses. Even if the government helps a given national public or private corporation, the competitors should find a way to respond... By fair prices too.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    That's beside the point. The author even mentions that it's "partially due to pesticides". So why focus on ONLY pesticides? That's certainly not going to solve the problem. Furthermore, like global warming (which apologists have now given the ambiguous, and frankly absolutely ridiculous, label of "climate change"), the problem is NOT that the Earth is getting warmer (the Earth will get warmer and cooler regardless of what humans are doing), the problem is whether or not human life will be able to withstand the future temperature changes.
    No one expects the author to provide every possible reason for things, he clearly states "in part due to pesticides". What is the issue? The fact that he doesn't go down the list of possible reasons? He never says "only caused by pesticides".

    The author never talks about global warming in this portion, so global warming and problems of its accuracy are only relavent to his article through your example, to which I state that it was a bad example. He provides a possible cause of a known situation, your example provides one for a questionable issue.



    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    We need to clarify here what exactly we're talking about. The guy that leaked top secret information not only broke the law, but nullified his security clearance. Should he be prosecuted for that? Should a spy be prosecuted for selling secrets to the enemy?
    The law? Do you not understand the authors point?

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    No, but the statement has nothing to do with the argument. We're not talking about "telling the truth", we're talking about leaking secrets.
    The only difference between leaking secrets and telling the truth is that one is forced by a governing body.

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    The author mentioned one incident (and linked to a sensational account of it), then started asserting (again without evidence) that it's happening on a large scale.
    The author never claims it to be large scale, simply that a situation of that sort exists, which it does, as he provided evidence of. The author then goes to say that this is something that exists as a threat to our health and freedoms, which, given the ladies 500,000 dollar bail for standing her ground, seems logical.

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    Right. Or in other words, there is no medical police state without a police state. So why are we ONLY worried about the police state when it comes to medicine? There are FAR more worrying things that the police state is doing than making people take drugs (like breaking into people's houses and shooting them and killing them).
    The author never claims to not worry about a police state in general. In fact, if you understand his statement about the wikileaks issue, you will understand that he implies a police state involvement. Simply because he doesn't provide a powerpoint bullet that reads "police state is bad" isn't reason to believes otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    Inflation is the increase in prices of goods and services due to an increase in money supply. It has nothing to do with the supply of the individual products. Price fluctuation due to supply and demand is NOT inflation, it's economics.
    No.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand-pull_theory

    Regardless, even with your understanding of what inflation is, the author never mentioned inflation. You mentioned it as being the cause of food prices. Yet, now you mention that prices fluctuate due to supply and demand.

    Going back to your previous arguement in regards to two other items, CCD and the police state, I would ask why you make hypocritical statements. What I mean is, you are asserting that the author is not valid in his statements of CCD and the medical police state because he doesn't provide a longer list of examples or causes. Yet, you yourself assume an increase in the money supply (what you call inflation) is the only cause of the increase of food prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    Genetically-engineered crops are designed to grow in suboptimal growing conditions. GE crops grow in fields that are infertile to "natural" crops. More crops means more food, which means less people dying. Norman Borlaug is considered the father of genetically-modified crops and is credited with saving over a billion lives.

    Besides, anyone that complains about GE crops is misguided. The banana is a genetically-engineered crop. The corn that makes its way into everything we eat (in the form of corn syrup)? Genetically-engineered to produce the maximum amount of produce in the smallest available space with the lowest quality soil (to the point where the raw corn isn't even edible to humans).

    Remember that guy Mendel? The father of genetics? Remember how he cross-pollinated plants and determined things like dominant and recessive genes? Those cross-pollinated plants he created were GMOs.
    From your link:

    "The phrase "over a billion lives saved" is often cited by others in reference to Norman Borlaug's work (e.g., [1]). According to Jan Douglas here, Executive Assistant to the World Prize Foundation, the source of this number is Gregg Easterbrook's 1997 article "Forgotten Benefactor of Humanity", the article states that the "form of agriculture that Borlaug preaches may have prevented a billion deaths.""

    It may have not? It may be making people eat garbage. It may be making them less fit. See what I did there?

    Cross pollination between two foods is different than bacterial DNA in foods. Cross pollination is natural breeding, it's no different than selecting your largest yield or fastest bloomers to seed the next crop. The difference here is that we're not intermingling bacterial DNA to form resistance to nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    Tangential to the point. The author is complaining about energy companies "destroying the world" (another unsupported, unqualified statement) while supporting them... even relying on them.
    So you don't believe that BP caused any damage in the gulf? He is not supporting them. A man in jail does not support the guard by using the gym equipment provided to him, this is twisted logic. Yes, you can get by without using electricity all together, but again this is besides the point of lax expectations and accountability. Not only that but you make assumptions, who is to say he doesn't have a solar panel on his roof?

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    I have absolutely no idea what this is supposed to mean.
    Simply because something is fertile does not make it edible. My point was, as I stated in the rest of the paragraph, that if a crop is more resistant to being eaten by insects, why would you want to put it in your mouth?

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    No, you don't. DNA DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT.
    Zero clue.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBpTimBMZh8

    Zero.

    Another one, this one animated for easy digestion.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gluCG6hoLUo

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    I'm talking about pseudo-intellectual elitism, where a person takes an extremely cursory (and often inaccurate) understanding of a subject and uses it to push their opinions on others.
    You mean like this?

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    No, you don't. DNA DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT.
    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    Like the people who protest supermarkets because they sell genetically-modified food.Did it ever occur to the author that, because of the greater supply of food thanks to a better ability to grow in hostile environments, GE crops might be cheaper, and might actually be more affordable to poor people than their expensive organic shit? There's no way around it: if you hate GE crops, you hate poor people.
    Please reread what I said about this being a choice. Their choice of what they want to put in their bodies is their choice, not your choice.

    Have you ever actually eaten farm grown foods? I don't mean organic stuff you buy at the store, but actual home grown. You should give it a try, tomatoes are actually sweet in real life, regardless of what the supermarket version makes you believe.


    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    So now we're citing movies as sources?
    Yes, that's why I said:

    Though I wouldn't take it as evidence, Idiocracy is worth a watch if you never have. Hilarious.

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    By the way, I love that movie.
    There is a future for this world if we can agree on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    You can always change the channel. But again, the point you make is not addressing my argument at all. Choosing to get your information from a bad source is bad regardless of the format of the source. He's choosing to get his information from bad sources (or actually, it seems ONE bad source because his entire article only has ONE source).
    No, when you change the channel on the TV it's still the same biased stuff. You have yet to prove his source is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    I am bashing him because he's WRONG, and he's making arguments about stuff that he clearly doesn't understand. The internet is rife with information, both good and bad. He is a progenitor of the bad.
    You mean like this?

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    No, you don't. DNA DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT.
    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    You're not understanding the point at all. The point is that I DO want better. I want people to stop believing idiotic things. I want people to stop wasting time and money on misguided crusades. I want people to be smarter and learn more, and not get sucked up into pseudo-science or personal vendettas. I want people to stop buying into bull**** and put their efforts towards things that actually make a difference.
    I understand completely, but I have a few words of advice for you...

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    The point is that I DO want better. I want people to stop believing idiotic things. I want people to stop wasting time and money on misguided crusades. I want people to be smarter and learn more, and not get sucked up into pseudo-science or personal vendettas. I want people to stop buying into bull**** and put their efforts towards things that actually make a difference.
    Hope that me linking your own quote to you makes sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    So what does that mean TO YOU? How much more risk is an extra 240 mrem a year? You don't know, do you? What good are numbers if you have no idea what they mean?

    I can tell you exactly what an extra 240 mrem a year is doing to you: absolutely nothing. If you're that concerned, stop getting CT scans.

    Take note that the occupational limit for radiation exposure is 5 rem per year. So at 600 mrem, you're at about a tenth of the yearly exposure limit, a limit that was designed to avoid stochastic effects appearing later in life.

    Did you know that flight attendants receive higher effective doses of radiation than the average person? This is because alpha particles are much more prevalent high in the atmosphere, and the tissue weighting factor of alpha particles is twenty times that of a gamma ray. I don't hear you guys complaining about planes.
    While it doing "absolutely nothing" is a strong statement, probability would say otherwise. If it did nothing, there wouldn't be a limit for its exposure. The point is that it does do something, and probability doesn't play nice when it's only one sample. While it's nice to think of only 1 in a million people getting cancer at a certain "limit", I'm sure that, at minimum, 1 person would object to this "absolutely nothing" you speak of.

    I don't have hard numbers for the other sources of radiation he provided, I'd look it up but it's getting late, and I still have work in the morning and homework to do. Though, I would think that an always on instrument exposing the surroundings to radiation is a different dose when compared to the near instant situation in the dentists chair.

    As for the flight attendants, again, he never implies that he doesn't care, doesn't know, or doesn't care to know about the subject. He simply doesn't state anything about it.

    Most importantly, there is no "you guys". I have my own viewpoints that are usually fringe to most, simply because they align at times with other viewpoints doesn't make the two of us a group.

    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    I would be overjoyed if there was even a single person that felt the slightest bit enlightened after reading my comments on this article.
    Hear hear.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rarson View Post
    I would be overjoyed if there was even a single person that felt the slightest bit enlightened after reading my comments on this article.
    The only reason I'm not enlightened is because I already agree with you. Fully agree. So I guess I should say thank you for offering reasonable and rational thought to a thread that belongs in an insane asylum. I have decades of experience hearing nut-job theories like this. Especially stuff like the Illuminati or related topics. These people can't be reached. It would be like trying to teach calculus to my dog. Not gonna happen.

    I'd love to expand on all your responses to your reasoning. I should throw in the compliment of good, intelligent reasoning on your part. Sadly, I think I'd just be wasting my time. Anything I'd type here, you probably have already considered but haven't typed yet. As to those who disagree with you? Don't bother, its over their heads.

    I think I'll now make use of the ignore button now. No sense in wasting any more time on these ramblings. Again, I'm grateful to you for being sensible.
    When people tell me "You're going to regret that in the morning" I sleep in till noon because I'm a problem solver!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by distinctively View Post
    ....I have decades of experience hearing nut-job theories like this. Especially stuff like the Illuminati or related topics. These people can't be reached. It would be like trying to teach calculus to my dog. Not gonna happen...


    These "theories" like most of you are calling them exist in this form only because those "that can't be reached" have the interest to keep people severely uninformed. It's the same as calling Earth's surface flat for centuries.
    You should be blind not to see where this world is going to, everything around us is a proof, you don't need the articles. But it's not fair to try to RENOUNCE it.

    BTW, it's far better to be a good dog-like creature rather than evil greedy multi-billion illuminati. You can't measure people only by how intelligent or enlightened they are, when they obviously can destroy the planet, and are doing severe damages to it.


  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by vain View Post
    So which one of the two was it?
    groan. So my new currency will be for me to be paid in bacon, by the pound

    (danmed british english)
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  6. #26
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    I will say one thing about food and GMOs. I'm from farm country and visit various relatives who still live and work in farm country. I don't care about your discussion of GMOs and the definition, I'll take the definition as the general category of what Monsanto sells as seed that they've gained a patent for as a GMO. aka roundup ready is a favorite. There is a serious serious problem with GMO corn and the farmers know it but are stuck in contracts that will beggar them and you WILL finally see food prices go through the roof when that happens. You see the protections that GMO corn provided with a 10-20% yield increase the first few years of growing the stuff is now dropping and dropping like a rock. The corn rootworm that was supposed to be "done with" from Bt Maize from, I think Monstanto, is taking out fields and fields of corn in MN and Iowa. I won't speak to other places I don't know farmers. It's whispered and worried about. It is not talked about in the open, it's a casual, yeah, there's a problem, don't know what I'm going to do, I'm signed into such and such contract with my seed supplier to plant x acres of bt corn.

    It's said now by the extension services that corn rootworm has developed a resistance to bt in the course of less than 10 years of planting. Monstanto will blame the farmers for not planting the alloted percentage reserve of acreage in non-Monsanto seed but the reality is that it cross pollinates and what the farmer has after a few years of planting reserve and Bt corn next to eachother is really all Bt corn. They have as much lodging in those fields as in the Bt fields.

    And yes, while food prices do go up with inflation, they also go up with the cost of land, taxes, gas, seed, pesticide and transport and processing of said food. They go up in extreme years when there are floods or other natural disasters that wipe out a crop. Crop insurance covers a lot to keep farmers afloat in the US but when off season food is imported and those farmers have late frost (fruit) or early frost (fruit) or a heatwave etc. then the price of importing that last bit that is harvested is fairly high.

    And yes, I worry for family still trying to make a living in farm country and what is bred and processed there is so very toxic (alcohol for the liquor industry and corn syrup for everything else). The processing plants have children around them with 50% asthma rates along with mini cancer alley. Don't get me started on farm issues when you don't have family living there and dealing with it.
    Specialization is for insects. - Heinlein
    Laugh dammit, life is too damned short not to laugh
    ------------------------
    I don't care if the sub-pixels are so small I need TWO magnifying glasses to see them. I want a phone that has longer battery life.

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by vain View Post
    "So those who tell the truth (Wikileaks) are viciously pursued as if they were criminals"

    Do you disagree with this statement? Is it false? No. Are you implying that it's not always the best idea to tell the truth because you consider it to be acceptable to consider it a crime, or that you believe that it is better to hold the general population ignorant? If you don't believe the information provided by wikileaks was valuable, you were not forced to read it, and thus did not have to "listen" to the truth. If you consider that it should be a crime, then I would ask why. The statement that you believe it's not always the best idea missses the point. Regardless of what your opinion about what should and shouldn't be said is, there is a governing body that enforces one particular side.
    The idea of wikileaks is great, but wikileaks isn't. It was corrupted by the agenda of julian assange. That video of the chopper killing civilians? edited to make it look as horrible as possible. That's a tactic used by the mainstream media to control the news, which i believe the author complained about. But I guess it's ok as long as the news org follows the authors agenda.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copper View Post
    I will say one thing about food and GMOs. I'm from farm country and visit various relatives who still live and work in farm country. I don't care about your discussion of GMOs and the definition, I'll take the definition as the general category of what Monsanto sells as seed that they've gained a patent for as a GMO. aka roundup ready is a favorite. There is a serious serious problem with GMO corn and the farmers know it but are stuck in contracts that will beggar them and you WILL finally see food prices go through the roof when that happens. You see the protections that GMO corn provided with a 10-20% yield increase the first few years of growing the stuff is now dropping and dropping like a rock. The corn rootworm that was supposed to be "done with" from Bt Maize from, I think Monstanto, is taking out fields and fields of corn in MN and Iowa. I won't speak to other places I don't know farmers. It's whispered and worried about. It is not talked about in the open, it's a casual, yeah, there's a problem, don't know what I'm going to do, I'm signed into such and such contract with my seed supplier to plant x acres of bt corn.

    It's said now by the extension services that corn rootworm has developed a resistance to bt in the course of less than 10 years of planting. Monstanto will blame the farmers for not planting the alloted percentage reserve of acreage in non-Monsanto seed but the reality is that it cross pollinates and what the farmer has after a few years of planting reserve and Bt corn next to eachother is really all Bt corn. They have as much lodging in those fields as in the Bt fields.

    And yes, while food prices do go up with inflation, they also go up with the cost of land, taxes, gas, seed, pesticide and transport and processing of said food. They go up in extreme years when there are floods or other natural disasters that wipe out a crop. Crop insurance covers a lot to keep farmers afloat in the US but when off season food is imported and those farmers have late frost (fruit) or early frost (fruit) or a heatwave etc. then the price of importing that last bit that is harvested is fairly high.

    And yes, I worry for family still trying to make a living in farm country and what is bred and processed there is so very toxic (alcohol for the liquor industry and corn syrup for everything else). The processing plants have children around them with 50% asthma rates along with mini cancer alley. Don't get me started on farm issues when you don't have family living there and dealing with it.
    If that corn allows me to glow in the dark, fly, have super strength or grow another penis, them I'm all for it!
    When people tell me "You're going to regret that in the morning" I sleep in till noon because I'm a problem solver!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by fusion View Post
    The idea of wikileaks is great, but wikileaks isn't. It was corrupted by the agenda of julian assange. That video of the chopper killing civilians? edited to make it look as horrible as possible. That's a tactic used by the mainstream media to control the news, which i believe the author complained about. But I guess it's ok as long as the news org follows the authors agenda.
    In the end, all outlets of media are owned by people with opinions, and will have some sort of agenda. This author and wikileaks included. The point is that wikileaks was pursued criminally for exposing a specific viewpoint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vain View Post
    In the end, all outlets of media are owned by people with opinions, and will have some sort of agenda. This author and wikileaks included. The point is that wikileaks was pursued criminally for exposing a specific viewpoint.
    No, they are being pursued for what is basically espionage.

    Also, the agenda is the point. How can he complain about the media twisting facts to further their agenda when he's doing the exact same thing? The guy's a hypocrite.

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