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Thread: What Mantle means for Nvidia's GPU market.

  1. #41
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    There is competition between EA and valve because steam vs origin . EA did not let their BF3 /BF4 (and ME3 iirc ) to sale on steam after a conflict with steam ( DLC sale was problem , valve wanted all DLC must be on steam )

    I dont think EA will support steamOS under these circumstances and EA is the main power behind mantle for now . Though situation for mantle on steamOS dream until EA- valve fight fixed

    Quote Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

    Valve wants out of the Windows ecosystem extremely badly. So badly that they're going as far as to not only create their own Linux distribution, but to create hardware that has that distribution pre-installed.

    DICE is making claims that all it takes for Linux gaming to take off is one big game, and they're pushing BF4 Mantle as fast as they can.

  2. #42
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    My comment was directed towards those NVidia trolls (in the literal sense) that need to post negative comments towards NVidia's competitors so that NVidia doesn't come across as the pathologically sociopathic company it is.

    Yes, NVidia's business plan seems to be "Let's lock people into our products and REALLY screw them! We want ALL their money!", while AMD's is more responsible and mature "Hey, let's create this neat feature and offer it for everyone, because there are more than enough customers for everyone."

    Mantle is still in that "we're getting it to work" phase. AMD has already made it clear that it is not going to be a customer lock-in product, but something they will willingly license (for suitable compensation), unlike JHH and his band of sociopathic cretins, who mantra seems to be "It's mine and you can't have it!".

    **trolling removed**

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by jagd View Post
    There is competition between EA and valve because steam vs origin . EA did not let their BF3 /BF4 (and ME3 iirc ) to sale on steam after a conflict with steam ( DLC sale was problem , valve wanted all DLC must be on steam )

    I dont think EA will support steamOS under these circumstances and EA is the main power behind mantle for now . Though situation for mantle on steamOS dream until EA- valve fight fixed


    This slide is directly contradictory to not wanting to support SteamOS - this is from the Mantle/BF4 keynote.

  4. #44
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    Totally agree. Keep in mind that Nvidia trolls don't represent the majority of the market. Its superior marketing that generally keeps NVidia ahead. More informed and level-headed people buy whatever fits their needs within their budget be it NVidia or AMD.

    That being said, can the mods put a lid on these Nvidia trolls or are they just too prolific?

    Quote Originally Posted by rich wargo View Post
    My comment was directed towards those NVidia trolls (in the literal sense) that need to post negative comments towards NVidia's competitors so that NVidia doesn't come across as the pathologically sociopathic company it is.

    Yes, NVidia's business plan seems to be "Let's lock people into our products and REALLY screw them! We want ALL their money!", while AMD's is more responsible and mature "Hey, let's create this neat feature and offer it for everyone, because there are more than enough customers for everyone."

    Mantle is still in that "we're getting it to work" phase. AMD has already made it clear that it is not going to be a customer lock-in product, but something they will willingly license (for suitable compensation), unlike JHH and his band of sociopathic cretins, who mantra seems to be "It's mine and you can't have it!".

    So you NVidia apologists and PR hacks can just su(k my ba!!s.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJava View Post
    Totally agree. Keep in mind that Nvidia trolls don't represent the majority of the market. Its superior marketing that generally keeps NVidia ahead. More informed and level-headed people buy whatever fits their needs within their budget be it NVidia or AMD.

    That being said, can the mods put a lid on these Nvidia trolls or are they just too prolific?
    1. You have the duty as a forum member to report posts as violating forum rules. Use the yield sign in the top right corner to report the specific post.

    2. I'm guessing, and I may be wrong here, is that Rich was responding to the general tone on the web ie not S|A forums but the echo chamber that attempts to call itself "journalism" The grandmas have no control over that as it is not on our forums.
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by JeeBee View Post
    Well AMD say that the CPU DirectX usage is 30-40% for a single card, so no wonder you see issues with 3 or 4 cards. They (Johan Andersson) also say DirectX and OpenGL only parallelise to 2 or 3 CPU cores, so you can't even scale out to fix these issues.

    But with Mantle AMD say the CPU load is down to around 10%, so that should bypass issues here. And they say that the driver maintenance is far easier. And of course the API is built around multi-core implementations.

    Sure, we need to wait for real world results, but what has been said is quite promising.
    It depends tremendously on what you're doing. OpenGL only has one thread that passes data along to the video card, but you can have arbitrarily many other threads do arbitrarily complex computations to figure out exactly what data the one rendering thread ought to pass along to the video card. And, of course, any non-graphical work can be handled by other threads. The single-threadedness of OpenGL only becomes a problem if the amount of OpenGL calls that you have to make are more than one full CPU core can handle.

  7. #47
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    Valve and EA are competitors but they are also competing with microsoft and their plans for future versions of Windows which will be run in the cloud and have app stores.

    Valve and EA should be working towards the same goal of leaving the MS ecosystem (or at least not depending on it entirely), but that does not mean they are working together.

    Microsoft's future plans for Windows are completely detrimental to both Valve and EA.

    EA would now have to compete with Windows App Store type of thing and Steam, and EA can barely compete with Steam. Meaning there's no way Origin would make it with Windows app store and Steam.

    Valve also has to compete. It is feasible that MS would want to bring their Xbox technologies to Windows to try and incorporate both products. Games for Windows was a colossal failure and Xbox has not been one. So it would only make sense to bring some of those technologies to PC.

    But those technologies would be extremely disruptive to EA and Valve's business models.

    I don't believe in the whole "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" adage but I do feel like it's in the interests of both companies to move from the Windows ecosystem. They just don't have to work together on it. AMD is just a middleman to both of them providing the tools for EA and Valve to independently move from the ecosystem they want nothing to do with and that has a future they don't like.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quizzical View Post
    It depends tremendously on what you're doing. OpenGL only has one thread that passes data along to the video card, but you can have arbitrarily many other threads do arbitrarily complex computations to figure out exactly what data the one rendering thread ought to pass along to the video card. And, of course, any non-graphical work can be handled by other threads. The single-threadedness of OpenGL only becomes a problem if the amount of OpenGL calls that you have to make are more than one full CPU core can handle.
    And the total number that can be made is less than you might think, because even if you do all the before-API-call work on 24 threads, you still have to use some combination of buffers and / or semaphores / mutexes which means lots of "if ... else" and waiting about and such to get things down to one thread at a time (whether it be one thread dedicated to the task, or the threads taking turns), that further reduces what you could otherwise shove through the OpenGL / Direct3D API.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post
    Games for Windows was a colossal failure and Xbox has not been one. So it would only make sense to bring some of those technologies to PC.
    Mainly because it required Windows Vista or newer at the time, and Vista was still scorned, 7 wasn't out or accepted yet, everyone still ran XP, and if there's on thing gamers hate is being forced to upgrade things unnecessarily. While they'd now probably require Windows 8+, and that's still fairly bad move, at least 8.1 (vs 8 - it's the Windows 7 vs Vista thing again) reduces some of the fail of 8 in terms of forced UI / usage changes and etc.

    The other major issue being having to handle DRM / DLC through Games for Windows Live - though at least it can somewhat coexist with Steam? At least, Super Street Fighter IV Arcade Edition is on steam and is G4WL...

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioSehnsucht View Post
    The other major issue being having to handle DRM / DLC through Games for Windows Live - though at least it can somewhat coexist with Steam? At least, Super Street Fighter IV Arcade Edition is on steam and is G4WL...
    Dawn of War 2 launch, which sported both G4WL and Steam. First weekend G4WL kept disconnecting and game only saves online cloud even in 'offline mode'. Next weekend that was fixed, but Steam had free CoD weekend and was down for whole duration of it. Enabling technologies and happiness.

    Hmm, I forgot what this had to do with Mantle and NVidia.
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