Page 29 of 32 FirstFirst ... 192728293031 ... LastLast
Results 281 to 290 of 317

Thread: The UK in distress?

  1. #281
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4,884
    Quote Originally Posted by pmoses View Post
    Key factor how not to loose war is not going to war.

    Marx & Engels proposed annihilation war against nation not submissive to Germans. In that they equal to Hitler, Heydrich, Himmler... National socialism wasn't born out of thin air. It was combination of nationalism - as proposed by Bismarck or Wilhelm II and socialism which roots could we find at Marx and Engels. In other nations could we find similar persons - G.B. Shaw, Lord Keynes and their Fabian circle in London. Or Jakobiners in France.
    That's why I oppose roots of socialism - because since beginning they were violent. Violent nationalism and violent robbery. I - as you - have nothing against rule of sensible law, against private property, or workers rights. What I oppose is that violence. We need to kill that or that people, because they oppose our idea of Great Revolution or Great Nation. We need to rob people from their property because we know better what to do with their money. We need to teach children, divide families ... because only so we will build the New Mankind.
    I love history. And because of that I can't love some admired philosophies or people.
    I acknowledge that Frederick the Great brought freedom to part of my family. That revolution of 1848 and new Kaiser Franz Joseph ended slavery to other part of my relatives. But I will not love their other deeds and tell that "their doing was necessary on such level of human knowledge"
    What about an economic war whether from multinational corporations or foreign states? None of that violence you hate. Just an insidious perversion of "sensible law" by smart capitalists for profit. Your countrymen freely accept bad deals that turn them into economic "slaves."

    The "never again" attitude is understandable but it's just a form of blind nationalism that ends up just as poisonous. You shut down all opposing viewpoints for only one, violently if required. Phrases like "necessary violence," "defend the homeland," or "fight for our security" will be used to justify those actions. Anyone that has an opposing view will be cast out as a "Stalin supporter" or worse.

    How can you oppose the roots of socialism yet have nothing against worker's rights?

  2. #282
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,081
    There's no ideology that's just all bad. None of them would have any following. I would argue that most models of society that has gained any traction have most of it good, even if end results or something else has gone wrong. And even if system isn't perfect it's usually not brought down by the ideology, but how it's interpreted (and usually abused) by those in control.
    "One solution that seems to have been reasonably effective in the past is that of public ridicule." - Alex Smith (2014, Nethack 4 about game balancing)
    "VR has been the future of gaming for the last 25 years, and will continue to be for another 25 years..." - NTMBK (2016)

  3. #283
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,829
    What's that old Bierce Ambrose thing I love quoting?
    Conservative: A statesman enamoured of existing evils. As opposed to a Liberal (or in modern parlance a Socialist) who wants to replace them with new ones.
    It's true isn't it? In a nutshell.

    For all that, I think the old (conservative) ways are the best ways. Because at least they have survived the test of time.

    Hive, I enjoy talking with you. We both have a sense of humour! I have to admit that when we Brits gave asylum and benefits to that terrible man Karl Marx, we never guessed it would come back to bite US in the bum too.

    Ah well, times have moved on. I gave a serious listen to US liberal UN advisor Jeffrey Sachs lately: http://www.intelligencesquared.com/e...w-world-order/.

    He's right that the World is much different from 1945, and we must adjust to it. And will definitely be better off co-operating than fighting, because we all face much the same problems.

    Depressingly we also now live in a World where Average is Over. You're either running a company or tending the machines for better productivity. Which means you are either at the top or the bottom.

    And as Jeffrey Sachs said, ALL the decisions are made by the people with the money. Well, they always were. So I'm more in favour of individual actions on whatever you care about, than waiting for Democracy or the State to change the World.
    Best Regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.

  4. #284
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,239
    Quote Originally Posted by boom View Post
    What about an economic war whether from multinational corporations or foreign states? None of that violence you hate. Just an insidious perversion of "sensible law" by smart capitalists for profit. Your countrymen freely accept bad deals that turn them into economic "slaves."
    Economic war is possible if state or corporation has too much power. It is clear when state has too much power - if there are high taxes, customs, too many laws. Sometimes it could happen if state has too much "natural resources". Fx if you had only one pipe with oil/gas to Europe and owner of that pipe demands price hike.
    How can corporation has "too much power"? If she is in bed with strong state. She can then twist laws for their profit - think tax evasion, direct state support. Or twist "intelectual property" laws - everyone should pay tithes to corporation for nothing. Or she can ban competition by law.
    In our country is finance minister owner of one corporation. Other politicians receive support from other corporations. Then state fights against "bad Polish food" - because finance minister needs customers for their chemical and food goods.
    The "never again" attitude is understandable but it's just a form of blind nationalism that ends up just as poisonous. You shut down all opposing viewpoints for only one, violently if required. Phrases like "necessary violence," "defend the homeland," or "fight for our security" will be used to justify those actions. Anyone that has an opposing view will be cast out as a "Stalin supporter" or worse.

    How can you oppose the roots of socialism yet have nothing against worker's rights?
    I am not sure nationalist of which nationality should I be? Maybe Liberland? :-)
    As for workers rights: My family was happpy when we were freed from slavery (serfdom, corv?e). And it is enough for us. Let us do what we want, let us live where we want. We will work and strive for our happiness. Those speaking about "worker rights" in our country attack the poorest of the poorest: manual working contractors, working immigrants are thrown in the hands of mafia and so on.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxiMrvDbq3s
    I love spirit of free people, even if they are poor.

  5. #285
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,829
    IDK why you Europeans are posting in the UK thread at all. Like you care.

    What I want to talk about is the tendency for young people to vote Socialist.

    I was once young, and quite left-wing in those days. But older age brings wisdom. The fact is that young folks embrace left wing ideas. Older folks embrace right-wing conservative ideas.

    IMO, the left-wing idea is to give younger and younger folks the vote. TBH, that is because young folks just don't know what is going on. So vote left-wing. Where should we draw the line? 2-y-o kids voting?

    But we older folks know that left-wing is just stupid, hateful politics. Left-wing is the failures of life who think they can justifiably steal money from the more savvy and hard-working people. Well, screw you is my opinion.

    Sorry to be so blunt. Conservative PM Theresa May will win this one despite reminding you of your annoying Mother who knew best. At some point you grow up.
    Best Regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.

  6. #286
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,443
    Quote Originally Posted by system7 View Post
    But we older folks know that left-wing is just stupid, hateful politics. Left-wing is the failures of life who think they can justifiably steal money from the more savvy and hard-working people. Well, screw you is my opinion.
    I'm more worried about the oligarchs who exploit the labour of hundreds, if not thousands of innocent workers who hard earn the money for the oligarchs who get unnaturally rich, and then in return the oligarchs throw at them crumbs, literally, as remunerations. What do you say about these?

  7. #287
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by toughluck View Post
    Killing Hitler would have accomplished exactly nothing... -snip- ... The reason I'm bringing it up is to show that a tyrant always has an entourage and there will be his trusted lieutenant to pick up the reins of power.
    That is a purely philosophical and temporal mechanics point of view. My point was more to point out the futility of pmoses' argument not to go to war if you don't want to loose - with regards to WWII.

    But while we are on the subject, have a look at the list of assassination attempts on Hitler in Germany alone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_Adolf_Hitler

    It is debatable wether his 'entourage' would have continued without change. Especially during the war. Loyalty was expressly to the f*cker himself. As such the dynamics after his hypothetical assassination would have been way too wild to make any reasonable assumption.

    But let's not digress from the subject at hand.

  8. #288
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,443
    Quote Originally Posted by Hive View Post
    My point was more to point out the futility of pmoses' argument not to go to war if you don't want to loose - with regards to WWII.
    With regards to ALL warfare and military actions in the world, I'd rather add that going to war is a sin which will bite those who attack back. It creates a very heavy karma for the participants and should be avoided at all costs.
    Military industry must be heavily transformed with 90% of it completely shut down.
    Even if many employees lose their jobs in the process.

  9. #289
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by system7 View Post
    IDK why you Europeans are posting in the UK thread at all. Like you care.
    Actually, most of the intellectuals and anglophiles i know or read seem to think just one thing: What are you doing? This is in no way based on logic or sensible politics for which the UK is known for decades. To point out that the Orange Clown and Farage are chummy chumps and Brexit got a huuuuge endorsement by said infantile seems redundant - but just let it sip in a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by system7 View Post
    But we older folks know that left-wing is just stupid, hateful politics. Left-wing is the failures of life who think they can justifiably steal money from the more savvy and hard-working people. Well, screw you is my opinion.
    Speak for yourself, old man. Sometimes you seem to me as a prime example of old man's stubbornness and pigheadedness. There was an interesting article / opinion in the NYT how the baby boomers were the worst generation of them all. Born after the war, raised during the post war boom, enjoying good, proper and cheap education, getting good and stable jobs, cheap houses, fat pensions, voting for tax cuts and deregulation because everything is fine (for them), just to screw everyone after them and scream bloody murder if someone dares to mention raising taxes, regulate or lowering tuition fees to offer the same benefits to the following generations. So much for your 'screw you'.

    Quote Originally Posted by system7 View Post
    What I want to talk about is the tendency for young people to vote Socialist.

    I was once young, and quite left-wing in those days. But older age brings wisdom. The fact is that young folks embrace left wing ideas. Older folks embrace right-wing conservative ideas.

    IMO, the left-wing idea is to give younger and younger folks the vote. TBH, that is because young folks just don't know what is going on. So vote left-wing. Where should we draw the line? 2-y-o kids voting?
    Well most political decisions are made by groups of older people, who would like to get reelected. In Germany e.g. the conservatives are quite successful in persuading the older population to vote for them. Which means that certain long term political decisions are based on the needs of older people. Usually we're talking about high single digit, most of the times two digit billions of Euros for social projects, that do not prepare for the future. They are preserving the status quo. One could almost say they are conserving it ;-)

    Now, how is that in any way smarter than the oh so lamented waste-fullness of the lefties? Besides securing the reelection of course.

    Btw. just to point out, that the voting age is not per se evil: we had regional elections the last 2-3 weeks. The most norther federal state has lowered the voting age to 16 and afterwards the statistics showed quite well, that those young people voted more responsibly and centristic overall than the older groups. Especially with regards to the fringe parties. Our UKIP/BNP equivalent AfD got significantly less votes from the youth than from the 45-75 year olds, which makes my heart smile!

    Quote Originally Posted by system7 View Post
    Sorry to be so blunt. Conservative PM Theresa May will win this one despite reminding you of your annoying Mother who knew best. At some point you grow up.
    Well, if you were honest to yourself, you'd at least acknowledge that May is not winning because of her brilliance or the Tory's stellar record. There is a reason why she choose this election now - despite having said something different not so long ago - Labour took itself out of the equation and UKIP imploded after the referendum.

    Why would she campaign basically in a bubble, without a TV debate, only in carefully selected 'townhall meetings', mostly in the countryside?

  10. #290
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiD View Post
    With regards to ALL warfare and military actions in the world, I'd rather add that going to war is a sin which will bite those who attack back. It creates a very heavy karma for the participants and should be avoided at all costs.
    Military industry must be heavily transformed with 90% of it completely shut down.
    Even if many employees lose their jobs in the process.
    I agree, but i doubt arguments like Karma will persuade enough.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
WordPress Appliance - Powered by TurnKey Linux