Exclusive: XBox Next chip just taped out
Sources say mystery chip in the oven now
Dec 5, 2011 in analysis, Consoles, Gaming, Graphics, Microprocessors, Opinion, Rumors
Remember when we told you about the upcoming Xbox Next chip that was quite imminent? It looks like SemiAccurate’s moles were right on target, and some sources are now telling us that it just taped out.
Yeah, basically, the chip is ‘done’, and first silicon likely went in to the oven in the last two weeks. If this is true, Microsoft should have silicon back in time to give the families of XBox systems engineers a miserable holiday season, their loved ones will be doing breakneck bring-up work on Xbox Next.
In any case, we hear the PoR is still for mass production in December 2012, but that could change quite a bit depending on bugs, foundries, software, and devs. If that date holds, add 3 months for first mass production silicon out of whoever ends up making them, a few weeks for system production, and likely a few months for stockpiling launch quantities. This means late spring or early summer 2013 for a launch.
More interestingly, canvassing the dev community, something really interesting turned up, basically MS is being quite mum on their plans at this point. Normally, a game takes ~2 years to write from scratch, so you get devs in the loop early, especially on new hardware. This time, our checks come out with devs not having heard squat all, something that is quite unusual.
The implications of that are twofold, one is that launch is later than the Q2/2013 that it looks like from here, or two, that the developer’s job this time will be different. By that, I mean backwards compatibility, so you write for the XBox 360 and add features for the Next, or that you are forced to write generalized Metro stuff to a black box.
With luck, it will be a 100% superset of XBox 360 features, that would make life easier. If Microsoft decides to try and leverage the failed Wince/Windows Phone Whateveritisthisweek by making the XBox Next run the same VM/middleware, I can see a developer revolt and slews of lowest common denominator software packing the virtual shelves. At this point in time, the software ecosystem seems like it is going to be much more interesting than the hardware.
Speaking of said hardware, the chip itself is a little bit grey in areas. As we said last time, it is definitely an ATI GPU which lends itself towards the backwards compatible option. IBM is also involved, so eDRAM is very likely, something our sources are all confirming. This means the CPU is very likely to be a PowerPC of one sort or other too. Then again, as HardOCP wrote, there are strong and credible rumors of it being an AMD x86 core ala Trinity. In any case more SemiAccurate moles are still saying PowerPC, that architecture makes much more sense here.
Last up, we have the name to update. Previously, we told you the chip was called Obed or something similar. Sources have come forward to clarify, it was indeed a bit off, the real name is Oban. Sorry for the confusion, but if it helps, there is some good that comes out of it. If you want an easy way to tell which sites have a clue and real sources in the gaming world, do a search for “XBox Obed”. Look at the articles closely. When you see ones that breathlessly claim to have a source for the incorrect name ‘Obed’, especially ones that curious add details, you know which ones don’t have a clue. Unfortunately there are lots of them, and many more that don’t understand how to actually link right. The metagame is almost as much fun as console games.S|A
45 Responses to “Exclusive: XBox Next chip just taped out”
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Dec 7, 2011
[...] console will be an AMD chip. The supplier for the CPU portion is a little less clear. SemiAccurate has it as an IBM PowerPC chip similar to the current generation which uses a Xenon processor. The newer XBox360 S used a [...]
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Dec 7, 2011
[...] Exclusive: XBox Next chip just taped out [...]
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Dec 7, 2011
[...] Un rumor parla del chip della next-xbox; [...]
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Dec 7, 2011
[...] Exclusive: XBox Next chip just taped out | SemiAccurate Citaat: [...]
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Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I do not believe that TSMC and like support any form of EDRAM. IBM supports it at least on their SOI processes, but please let me know if there are any bulk processes that support EDRAM.
Thanks,
at
Quoth the yahtzee: “With the current generation of consoles we have reached or nearly reached the point where graphics are not going to get much better” [see here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/6069-Death-to-Good-Graphics.2 “we can all stop rushing to top the last generation’s technology and concentrate on making some games with actual depth”
My guess:The next xbox will do one thing and one thing only, and that is guarantee 1080p at 72hz.
I laugh when people attribute visual quality to resolution. There’s more too it than that and yhatzee is wrong on the graphics debate. I agree with him on the gameplay debate though. Gameplay has been weak this generation. Lots of mindless, shit games. Still, the current crop of consoles are laughable in the performance department. We’ve hit maximum quality. Can’t wait for all the people touting that graphics won’t get better to shit their pants next Gen. It will always improve.
From what I have read here am I to understand that:
The Xbox is a gaming compatible HTPC and;
Microsoft wants you to only use paid (read: MS and Co.) content on it?
Microsoft – stop burning money and work on your x86 platforms.
Hmm…
maybe someone mixed up the rumors.
Wii is said to have a quad powerpc ati combo.
update rolling out Tuesday for the Xbox Live network aims to do what Microsoft has been teasing for a while — turn a platform designed primarily for video games into one that will be the major hub for all television viewing.
Microsoft promises the update, which it calls “the future of TV,” can “transform every Xbox 360 into an all-in-one device to enjoy your entertainment.”
“The update is another huge step toward realizing our vision of bringing you all your entertainment, shared with the people you care about, in an easy way,” Marc Whitten, Microsoft’s corporate vice president for Xbox Live, wrote on the official Microsoft blog.
The Xbox was the first gaming console to include Netflix and has since added entertainment partners such as ESPN, Hulu Plus, AT&T U-verse and last.fm. But Microsoft, hoping a bevy of new apps will up the ante, is adding content from 40 new partners while making existing content easier to view.
One of the free update’s key new features will be a voice-control interface that will let users retrieve videos, television channels, games or other content simply by asking for it.
The feature combines the Xbox 360′s hands-free Kinect system with technology from Microsoft’s Bing search engine to hunt down the content. Primarily billed as a gaming tool, Kinect uses a 3-D video camera and voice recognition to let the user interact with the TV screen without a controller.
The new partners, or updated apps, to be unveiled Tuesday include content from ESPN, Hulu, Netflix and MSNBC in the United States. In the coming weeks and months, Xbox will add YouTube, Best Buy’s CinemaNow, HBO Go, Major League Baseball and Comcast’s Xfinity On Demand. Time Warner, HBO’s parent company, also owns CNN.
Microsoft said the update will also add social features, from voting on who you think will win the big game to tools letting you notify friends when you’re tackling a multiplayer game they can join.
At a time when technology heavyweights such as Apple and Google are trying to gain footholds in the interactive TV market, some analysts are saying Microsoft has become the player to beat.
ecosystem:
noun, Ecology a biological community of interacting organisms and their physical environment.
So stop using that word for something it isn’t, the english language has tons of words, pick one that applies.
Who is the hottest girl you know? Who is her boyfriend? Does he know what kind of chips consoles have? Or phones? Chances are, he doesn’t.
Sure it’s not the *reason* that he’s with the hottest girl and you’ll be girlfriendless on New Year’s Eve, but it is a *symptom*.
He also doesn’t frequent tech sites posting comments about other people’s boyfriends.
But Timmy has the most awesome of Gf’s and their boyfriends, in his mouth all the time.
Aww, I was hoping for x86. Making Xbox 360 and PC games one and the same could potentially be very lucrative for Microsoft, and would open up some interesting opportunities. Mods, Windows 8, pirating… oh. Nope, x86 ain’t gonna happen.
And you forgot something Charlie. EA, Infinity Ward, Ubisoft, Bethesda and the like may not have access to the new Xbox hardware. But Microsoft Game Studios does… coincidence? They do have Halo 4 in their hands, after all.
I see loads of people suggesting this would somehow be a good thing, make games work on windows 8 and an xbox next gen, woo compatibility, woo.
All I see in the possibility that might happen, is the likelyhood of MS taking a cut of PC games, and PC games costing the same as console versions with their Sony/MS cut taken into account, something that doesn’t happen currently with PC gaming(unless of course the game is made directly by MS/Sony :p ).
I have no wish to pay £35-45 for games that current cost £20-25 on the PC and often end up on special pre-order offers of £15(crysis 2, dead space 2, dragon age I think are ones I got that cheap).
Think bigger. Something along the lines of Steamplay, where a game works both on pc and Mac. Microsoft has really missed the boat on digital distribution, when considering the hover of windows pcs are out there, could be lucrative for them. Plus it bring more interest back in pc development.
I repeat, pirating. You can’t pirate 360 games, and Microsoft isn’t going to burn away 1/2 their sales by turning Xbox 720s into TorrentBox 720s by making PC and Xbox games the same.
It would be really nice, ideally, but I also don’t want MS DRM in my gaming PC.
“You can’t pirate 360 games”
Uh, yes you can.
pirating ?? LOL
xbox360/ps3 open his doors 3year ago
and every game is on torrents 2-3 days before shops
so grow up
no one can prevent pirating
why ??
dev’s selling early betas for 50-60$
or just another 5-6h mod (read cod)
or just crap ,so if u like it u buy it
say in every torrent .nfo
i buy hl2 ep1/2 coh(all) warrhamer 40k all
and couple more like bfbc2 bf3 me 1/2
rest alpha/beta buggy junk
look this year l.a.noire for pc or gta4 for pc ,and that deserves any $$
NOOOOP !!!
if they make good game i will buy it the and
now on topic ..
i hear rumors that ibm/amd/ms work on new chip (cpu with integrated gpu memory)
some kind cell next 2x power pc5+ cores
and 12 power pc 4+ (maybe 5)
and 4xxx gen gpu
dont know how much memory on cpu but it will have 2+gb system mem
rest god (read bill gates) knows :))
i only wonder why ms hold 1 year more
and take new glue/stacking method from ibm
and have all in single chip
security cpu gpu memory chipset :))
You might be able to design the next Xbox to allow the games to be played on PC, but PC gamers aren’t going to want to play console games on their PC. I know I personally wouldn’t want to be limited to the control input and graphical settings of a fixed console. Maybe once in a blue moon, I’d buy a console game that I can’t get on the PC, but if I’m going to buy console games at all, I’d probably just buy the console, too.
Well, the idea is that devs can actually develop games designed for the PC when the Xbox=PC. The platform unity should, in theory, make it easier for devs to throw in lots of eye candy for desktop gamers with nice rigs, and still maintain console compatibility.
This is silly of course. The incredible difficulty of pirating 360 games is pure gold for developers. For Microsoft, making the Xbox anything remotely close to a PC is like shooting themself in the foot.
“Well, the idea is that devs can actually develop games designed for the PC when the Xbox=PC.”
That’s the whole point behind DirectX. Besides, developers already CAN do this, hence games like Battlefield 3. It’s just that many AREN’T right now because console hardware is long in the tooth.
“The incredible difficulty of pirating 360 games is pure gold for developers.”
All it takes to play copied games on the 360 is a firmware flash on the DVD drive.
wow, if they put a desktop class CPU into the next gen Xbox. wow. PowerPC is decent but there’s a reason why your Intel or AMD CPU by itself costs more than a 360 or PS3.
You can get a nice Intel Celeron CPU for about $30…
The original Xbox had a desktop-class CPU inside of it.
yep, a 733. it was nothing more than a crippled PC, still is. Only since then they have worked hard to kill gaming on the PC. So much so that MS stopped making PC games.
The funny thing is, those “crippled PCs” make really good media center boxes.
Yep, and MS spent 8 billion dollars selling them at a massive loss. I don’t really think they want to sell such generously discounted PCs again. XBox was so expensive precisely because it was using a CPU and GPU manufactured by third parties instead of with IP licensed to them. This makes even less sense now that more and more unique functionality can be consolidated on one die.
I don’t get it. You think it’s easier or cheaper to develop your own parts rather than using off-the-shelf PC parts?
I’m pretty sure they lost at least as much on each Xbox 360 as they did on the original Xbox.
You obviously know nothing about the current or (I’m hoping) soon to be last generation Power7 chips.
They had eight cores at up to 4.25ghz, 32mb eDRAM, and four threads per core. Intel’s best xeon (E7-4870/8870) can only come close to a 3.55ghz 8-core Power7 chip in multithreaded performance. IBM only needed 1.2 Billion transistors at 45nm SOI (567mm²) while Intel needed 2.6 Billion transistors at 32nm (513mm²).
I’m not sure about the pricing of the IBM Power7 chips ,or servers based on them, but in die efficiency and performance they make Intel look how Intel makes AMD look :P
oban will use DX11.1-alike API, so development of games is underway on Tahiti based rigs under virtualized layer for RISC instruction set… Key dev studios of 4 major game companies have these dev/sim rigs already
Yeah, considering there have been rumors of devs having some sort of dev kits for both the Xbox and Playstation successors already makes it seem weird that Charlie would report nothing after “canvassing” the devs.
Devs have been starting with PC-based software approximations before final hardware is available since at least the last generation. It’s very unlikely that there AREN’T devs already working on titles regardless of if silicon has or hasn’t taped out yet.
thomasxstewart,
What you smokin’?
being mole means being blind & been mole for life, can anyone tell me, am i darkee’ mole or nice, pretty freckle color.
drashek commander mole….
Now begining to tune on, much savee’ Gatorade color, Sweet lemonade taste under Ice. Big questions remain on Next.
like Xbox of yore, took forever to get out door. by that time, Xbox Next will have specss, much out of date, yet from software pointe, that might be Good. Probably have own propritary language.
ITs’ Mole Vs. Mole world. Blu Ray, Probably Required, so large possible game foot Print. HD1080P. Probably ALL DAT Daft Stuff, Motion Detection, Xbox Guitat. Drashek Bro, For 1% Crowd.
Hey remember thosei iran sites that “accidently” blew, well, tures out to been raid, fisrt pics in show helicopter & armoured personel carrier, ALL Building Demolished in one by one demolition from google.
funny thing, there are no vechiles, like automobiles nor trucks in 1/4 mile sq photos, no people, no housing nor electric lines, no roads nor air strip, no rail. seems like imposter place. maybe very old, as remaents of roads going here & there & just ending in desert, are common. Seems as Suspicious as Xbox Next or that Microsoft place in Siberia….
Interesting Stuff. Any chance of another Article this year? SnailAccurate!
I agree 100% I wanted to come up with some analogy about how SemiAccurate (My favorite site) is quickly becoming like AMD. (unfortunately my prefered x86 manufacturer) Making us wait with little or nothing to report.
This is SemiAccurate. It sounds like you’re not familiar with the site.